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09 February 2008 @ 08:26 pm
File Sharing  

Fan Club only Material and File Sharing

I am just as guilty as anyone else for downloading illegal mp3s, videos, anime series, and movies. But as I was looking around for affiliates for this community, I ran into something that really set me off. I want to join the fan clubs to get the exclusive content. But I don't believe sharing FC content is any worse than sharing the CD or magazine (via scans). We are techinically not supposed to be uploading those out of "respect for the band and people that spent their hard earned money on it". But we do anyway.

These people were crying out for the respect of GazettE's Heresy members by not allowing any FC content to be posted, but they are doing it in a file SHARING community. How backwards is that? If you're gonna do something, do it all the way! It's just as illegal. If you don't agree with sharing files that request you not to do so, why are you downloading that PV that has a very distinct piracy notice? It's hypocritical to say the least.

So, it's okay to post up something that cost me only 30$ or less, but if it's something as expensive as a Heresy membership, ZOMG =O That's so disrespectful. File sharing is illegal. Everyone has their side of the fence on that, but for goodness sake PICK ONE.

Personal Note:
I used to download tons of everything. Now, I only download things I want to test before buying. And if I do not intend to buy what I have downloaded, I do as the notices say and delete them pretty much right away. I'm not saying that's any better or any worse. I'm just saying that is what I do if the rant made you curious.
Current Mood: annoyedannoyed
❀ ルピdaisuki on February 10th, 2008 02:33 am (UTC)
I don't know--If I shell out that kind of money to get into HERESY, I'm going to be >_> @ people getting the shit I paid for for free. Because I am a jew, not elitist. I don't think the HERESY members can be blamed for wanting their money's worth, especially since PSC is so freaking anal about FC-material being shared. Those are their rules.

You're angry at HERESY members for...abiding by the guidelines set by PSC. :/
tearsxinxflames on February 10th, 2008 03:02 am (UTC)
I don't mind FC members not wanting the material uploaded. But they are just as bad for downloading the cds and magazine scans for free. It's hypocritical for them to think FC is any better than everything else that is not supposed to be uploaded. Both ways are hurting the band just as bad.
❀ ルピ: れいた→somewhere far awaydaisuki on February 10th, 2008 03:15 am (UTC)
I wouldn't really include the scans here; they're not members' only. PSC doesn't come down on people for downloading/scanning magazines.

I understand where you're coming from, but what about the HERESY members that actually do support the band and buy their material, of which there are many? It doesn't seem to me that they think it's any better, either, for not wanting the things they pay a pretty penny for made readily available.

I'm not even a member of HERESY and I feel the same way at times about certain things. I spend so much time seeking images for graphics, and sometimes through hard work I unearth photos that I don't see often in icons/misc. graphics, so—and I can admit it—I hoard these images. It's not because I think they're better or I'm a ~*supa fan ;D*~ or shit like that, but because I spent my own time finding them. Why the hell would I want to go out of my way to make other peoples' jobs easier by just randomly volunteering things?

Sorry for rambling but I'm just trying to avoid all of the members being seen as elitist or, frankly, assholes because of the few which actually are, you know? : )
tearsxinxflames on February 10th, 2008 04:23 am (UTC)
I mention the scans from magazines because they are property of that magazine, photographer, band, and label. All 4 of those entities are very lax about the laws of it. But none the less, they own the images and they are not meant to be posted on the internet without permission of one of the four. Same rules as FC. It's just not part of the FC domain. Same goes for mp3s and PVs. They are not meant to be uploaded on the internet. We all know it's highly illegal.

My problem is that the particular FC members I'm mentioning were part of a community that does NOTHING but share files that are not meant to be shared. But once it was something that they themselves has spent money on, then suddenly they cared about it. When they were doing the very same thing they want prohibited.

Heresy members that don't participate in file sharing, are not a part of the rant. I have no problem with them. I have no problem with people who upload either. My point is you can't play middle of the road. You are either for file sharing and accept that one day it's you who paid for it just to see other people taking it for free. Or you are against it and try to protect the things that you worked so hard to get.

Wether it is a 15 dollar CD single or a 130 dollar Heresy membership makes no difference. Both are not meant to be uploaded.

And I don't think that all of them are assholes. It was just the people in that particular community who got under my skin. ^^;

Edited at 2008-02-10 04:43 am (UTC)
❀ ルピdaisuki on February 10th, 2008 07:05 am (UTC)
There is a middle ground though. Honestly, I see no problem with sharing media such as scans/CDs/DVDs. A lot of people download music/movies/etc. to get a preview of what they actually intend to buy. I'm not ashamed to admit, I'll download an album because I can't wait for my own copy or don't have the cash handy, but downloading doesn't necessarily mean I don't intend to still shell out money to actually own the CD/DVD.

I seriously doubt that I'm the only one that does this.

I can admit, I've met some HERESY members that are total elitist cunts, but then again, I've met non-HERESY members that are... (wait for it..!) total elitist cunts. : ) The fandom is going has gone to shit anyway.
tearsxinxflames on February 10th, 2008 07:40 am (UTC)
I actually preview download as well for buying purposes. And I personally don't care if people upload Heresy content. I wouldn't download it even if it was uploaded because I want to give the band my money. I can respect what it is. If someone else doesn't, that's their problem. I'm just saying one is indeed as bad as the other.

To make it short... I believe if you download illegally at all, or support it by joining communities that do it, you do not have the right to complain about what is or is not uploaded. That's just how I feel about it.

And I agree. elitist cunts are everywhere. I'm even guilty of it here or there. I think it just kinda starts happening when I feel like the old bitty of the fandom. XD;

Edited at 2008-02-10 09:38 am (UTC)
(Deleted comment)
tearsxinxflames on February 10th, 2008 05:06 am (UTC)
I'm almost convinced that a lot of the more recent GazettE fans are just Diru fans who jumped ship because they "aren't VK anymore.".... >.>; But I generally hate anything that involves large groups of people getting together. They lose their damn minds. 8D

And I agree with what you said there too. I mean, I like to support the bands. I want to see them succeed. But, because one person uploaded one picture (or even just made a personal icon from it) a lot of people will jump on them when they do something else equally as bad. The ol' stones and glass houses.

random = your icon is beautiful~ *_*

Edited at 2008-02-10 06:11 am (UTC)
sky pirate: audrey kitching ; ocean scene.decomposition on February 10th, 2008 05:56 am (UTC)
Just saying: it's funny that you say here that people who upload a fanclub picture get jumped on, when really they get nothing compared to the shit that people who defend the fanclub rules get. I mean, it's only happened twice now that I've been harassed beyond the point of being justifiable simply because I myself wouldn't post a picture that was fanclub exclusive - I've never seen anyone get that kind of harassment for actually posting a fanclub picture.

I'm risking getting shit thrown in my direction again just by saying this.

And anyway, there's a difference. Fanclub material is exclusive for fanclub members, whereas CDs/DVDs/scans/etc are not exclusive, they're there to be bought or downloaded by anyone. Fanclub material is not just for anyone, it's for the members.

Exclusive material is called exclusive for a reason. That's why some people get posters/stickers when they buy CDs, and some don't. Sharing it with everyone makes it no longer exclusive fanclub material and makes being a member completely pointless and worthless, and then why should there even be a fanclub?
tearsxinxflames on February 10th, 2008 06:06 am (UTC)
Well that is funny, because I've never seen anyone defending FC only get jumped on like you say. So I guess we're even there.

Apparently, it doesn't bother you that much, because you're saying it.

And you're wrong. CDs/DVDs/Magazines are exclusive to the PAYING CUSTOMERS. Just because you're a "member" doesn't make you any better than someone else who paid for something that isn't supposed to be shared online. If none of it were exclusive, it would be FREE. Hense the billions of dollars spent on piracy and illegal distrubution law suits every year. Just because it doesn't have a special name tag for you doesn't mean it's different than anything else you have to PAY FOR.

Edited at 2008-02-10 06:07 am (UTC)
sky pirate: hanna beth ; material girl.decomposition on February 10th, 2008 06:26 am (UTC)
I've had people jump on me in comments more than once in communities, people come to my personal journal to leave me harassing comments, and people steal/upload publicly all of my personal icons just because one person asked for the original picture of one and I told them I couldn't give it to them because it was from the fanclub. Yet people who do upload fanclub pictures get a "thank you, you're awesome!" So you can't say that those people get harassed when, in fact, it's the other way around.

I never said I was better than anyone else - why is it that just because I'm a member, I'm accused of thinking I'm better than everyone else? I'm simply saying that there would be no point in a fanclub if everyone posted or uploaded the material. CDs/DVDs/magazines are not exclusive, they're right there for everyone and anyone to buy. Anyone can buy those. Only members can buy fanclub things.

For the record, I do buy and support Gazette's releases, and magazines they appear in, and their merchandise. So I believe I'm one of those "Heresy members that don't participate in file sharing" who "are not a part of the rant".
tearsxinxflames on February 10th, 2008 06:34 am (UTC)
Well, I'm sorry for your luck with that. I've only seen people had had made their own personal icons with fc pictures get jumped on and harrassed to the point that they left livejournal. So, it swings both ways.

And a fanclub membership isn't that exclusive, considering anyone has the option of buying one of those if they can afford it. Does that mean that BMW are exclusive because it's more expensive than other cars? Nope. A fan club, is exactly that.. a club of fans. The point of a fan club is to show the band that they have your constant and loyal support, not for pictures or merch. You might want to rethink why you joined it if you're only in it for the "exclusivity".

The way your comments come across to me seem like you think you are special because you think fan club merch means more than a CD that you can get "right there for anyone to buy". Technically a fan club is "right there for anyone" to join.

You were a member of Gazette Media. So, you might want to rethink that statement. You supported file sharing, and didn't complain until it was something you held a little bit closer to heart.

Edited at 2008-02-10 06:36 am (UTC)
sky pirate: the l word ; shane ; taste.decomposition on February 10th, 2008 06:39 am (UTC)
Interesting how just because I'm a fanclub member, I get instant hostility - my comment wasn't much different content-wise than daisuki's. I've actually been pretty polite in my comments, I'd think, and if you're going to assume that I think I'm special just from my "tone", then I guess it's okay for me to think you're too immature to understand the basis of exclusivity, right?

Anyway... I'm a member of Gazette Media for the news announcements, so you might not want to jump to conclusions too fast. Because I was making a simple point of my opinion and you've basically proved me right about fanclub members getting more hostility than those who actually upload it.
tearsxinxflames on February 10th, 2008 06:59 am (UTC)
Hostility? I've been polite to you, I havn't even lost my temper. I was just stating that your word choice sounded a bit "high on yourself" to me. You're playing the victim in an arguement you started yourself.

And it sounds like you're being over sensative about this whole thing. It's not a personal attack, or wasn't until you brought that up. I had left your name and the community's name out of it. You came all by yourself to play martyr. I hope you got what you wanted. =D

All the same, you're supporting something you turn around and denounce, even if it's by turning a blind eye. And that's hypocritical. So, go bother someone else. I don't argue with people who have to resort to slander because they can no longer defend their arguement.
xhydra666x on February 10th, 2008 06:45 am (UTC)
"CDs/DVDs/scans/etc are not exclusive, they're there to be bought or downloaded by anyone..."

Ex-fucking-CUSE ME?! Then why the FUCK are their specific copyright laws in place that threaten severe repercussions for unauthorized public broadcast or reproduction and distribution of this material?! The bands whose material is being ripped off have to eat, too. They have to make a living. Why the FUCK do people think they are entitled to download a CD/DVD for free just because it is available to a public market?

Look into it sometime. And I mean REALLY do some digging. You would be surprised how many bands whose material is widely available as free (illegal) downloads have folded because their labels dropped them for 'lack of profitability'. And they are bands who many, MANY people know well! Why weren't they profitable? Because next to NO ONE was buying their material and so many were downloading it with no regards to the impact it would have on the musicians who created it.

Stop being so selfish. Stop being entilement whores. Start being a little more respectful to the people who bust their asses to bring us this music and fucking BUY something. If you want to hear it before the purchase, I strongly recommend listening in to Tainted Reality or visiting CDJapan.co.jp as they have numerous audio clips available for much of the material they carry.
xhydra666x on February 10th, 2008 06:48 am (UTC)
And btw, I am a member of Mana's, Sadie's, Dir en grey's, and TMR's fanclubs. Would I share the material I receive from those clubs? No more than I would ever upload a CD or DVD I purchased from CD Japan or any of the other legitimate sources of which I am a patron.
❀ ルピ: FF→:O!daisuki on February 10th, 2008 06:51 am (UTC)
Uh... She says she does buy? And... she doesn't upload things like that. So there's no need for hostility, and certainly no need to sling bullshit labels.

Relax, huh? decomposition was civil and I think it's only fair to be civil in return, and the least you can do before jumping the gun is read her comment thoroughly.
xhydra666x on February 10th, 2008 07:02 am (UTC)
Darling, I would never dream of posting a reply to anything unless I had thoroughly read and understood it first. And also, Precious, where did I EVER say that my post was directed at the individual who posted prior to me? I didn't.
But that one line that I quoted is a prod that always gets this pony bucking. See, I'm of the old school, from well before widespread internet use and file sharing. Back then if you wanted a CD you HAD to go buy it. Thete is a certain discipline that comes with that, and when you get as deeply involved in the business of making music as I have you begin to understand the importance of CD purchases and the devastation being wreaked on its artists by file sharing.
My rebuttal was on that one statement quoted at the top of my original post.
And these "bullshit labels" you mentioned...you've lost me.
❀ ルピdaisuki on February 10th, 2008 07:08 am (UTC)
Wooow. Okay, sure sweetcheeks.

Yeah, looks like we're both from the same ~*Old School*~.
xhydra666x on February 10th, 2008 07:17 am (UTC)
That may be, as far as music fandom is concerned.

But...please. Don't try to patronize me. Contrary to what the majority seems to believe I actually DO know what I'm talking about when it comes to music and its inner workings.
❀ ルピdaisuki on February 10th, 2008 07:21 am (UTC)
Hmm, please read your prior comment to me, Precious, and tell me its tone lacked patronization when you assumed I was probably a shit-for-brains fourteen year old, Honey.

I don't doubt that you know what you say you know nor have I mentioned doing so. I'm simply doubting your capacity to speak your mind without behaving like the kind of person you pretty much accused someone else of being.
xhydra666x on February 10th, 2008 08:14 am (UTC)
Fine, then, be condescending as you like if it makes you feel better.

And for the record, I never said a word about your age or your intelligence level. But thank you for feeling it was so necessary to point out that you thought I had jumped to said conclusion.
tearsxinxflames on February 10th, 2008 07:06 am (UTC)
I don't think she's so much jumping on decomposition as being very passionate about copyright laws. They were just downplayed by the statement she quoted from the post. So far, it doesn't read like a personal attack. But if it gets out of hand, you can trust me to break it up. This community was pretty much founded for heated discussion.
❀ ルピ: porn→this is my daydreamdaisuki on February 10th, 2008 07:13 am (UTC)
I'm not saying this was a personal attack but I am saying that the negativity being aimed at her is unfounded, since I don't believe she sounded elitist or holier than thou.

I just think that both sides can say their piece without it degenerating into some kind of dick-size competition.
xhydra666x on February 10th, 2008 07:26 am (UTC)
My elitist behavior is neither empty nor unfounded, that's what sets me apart from so many, many others. I repeat: I know what I'm talking about in regards to music and the trickle-down effect of file sharing and sales of recorded music because I have been there, on the other side of the coin, and witnessed it for myself on a very personal level.
❀ ルピdaisuki on February 10th, 2008 07:33 am (UTC)
Okay, you know what you're talking about. See, that was never in question, and I have yet to—in this thread—see anyone mention doubting your claim. Before this, I don't think we've crossed paths for me to have any opinion of you. Fine. My gripe was simply that she was, in no way, behaving as if she was in some way entitled, nor uppity, or elitist, or anything else. She simply had something to say, as a HERESY member.

As a HERESY member who supports the band, no less.
xhydra666x on February 10th, 2008 07:53 am (UTC)
Okay, I'm lost again. All I did was state my piece on the copyright infringement of downloading music.
Did we miss the part where I mentioned my own membership in Mon+amour, Turbo, [a knot], and Undead? And the fact that I, too, would never upload/scan/otherwise distribute the merchandise I receive from these clubs any more than I would the material on a CD or DVD purchased publicly?
And I behave like an elitist because that's what I am. I have accused no one else of being such. I am not an entitlement whore, in fact I am quite the opposite. I have accused NO ONE here of being that, either. My original statement was not directed at the person who posted above me, simply on one thing that was quoted by said person that I hear all too often: "it's available to the public for sale, I have the capability of uploading/downloading it, so why not give it away/take it for free?"
tearsxinxflames on February 10th, 2008 07:28 am (UTC)
8/ I think she explained that it was her personal opinion on file sharing, and not targeted at anyone particular.

To be honest, a reply like that was what I was expecting from my post. And it's the kind of replies I expect to see around here a lot. Because the comm is based on ranting, and not all rants are going to be peaches and cream. As long as it's on topic and there is no racial slurs or trolling going on, it's not against the rules. But mainly, I was just letting you know that MOD is watching and making sure of that.

Edited at 2008-02-10 07:31 am (UTC)
❀ ルピdaisuki on February 10th, 2008 07:36 am (UTC)
And I understood you, and I hardly expect a place like this to be a walk in An Cafe's asshole and I'm not questioning your rules.
tearsxinxflames on February 10th, 2008 07:44 am (UTC)
LOL.. that's a good line. "walk in An Cafe's asshole". Seriously, I almost spat out my tea when i read it.

I'm sorry, if I made it sound like you did. I know you didn't. And I didn't mean to imply it. The comm is just new and I'm also making sure that I'm doing what I signed up for.
❀ ルピ: れいた→It's this big!daisuki on February 10th, 2008 07:54 am (UTC)
Oh shit, I'm glad the keyboard didn't get a bath! It's nearly three AM and I tend to get retarded when I need sleep. XD;

You're absolutely fine, no worries. : )
hinoemahinoema on June 22nd, 2008 09:52 am (UTC)
I have to agree. I, too, am 'old school'. I don't download music, movies, or anything like. If I want to preview a song I can't get on the radio in my area, I watch the PV on YouTube or lsiten on LastFM or similar. If' I like it, I buy it. I can't, personally, call myself a fan if I steal anyone's music/ concert DVD etc. And no, I don't consider 'I'll download it now and buy it later' legitimate, either. Initial sales and chart position can make a huge difference in whether a band will survive to record again or not.

As for your main rant, I agree. It is hypocritical of some to participate in file sharing when it's the band's music and DVDs but to whine when the fan club items they uploaded for other special snowflakes get jacked by the heathen masses.